Tito Jackson: How Adding More Cowbell Can Be the Prescription for Your Team’s Fever

Richard:

Hello Tito, thanks so much for joining us today.

Tito:

Thank you so much Richard and I want to let you know that this is literally a absolute first. Because I have never worn a sweatshirt on a podcast before. So I just want to let you know that we have.

Richard:

All right.

Tito:

We are making, we’re making history today.

Richard:

This is history right here.

Tito:

So I’m rocking my San Diego.

Richard:

That’s cool, I love it.

Tito:

Sweatshirt.

Richard:

Looking good, with a San Diego sweatshirt I expect you got a longboard next to you and you’re going to be skating somewhere right after this.

Tito:

Richard, actually this is also another confessional that I need, I actually was a skater back in the day.

Richard:

No way. I just totally made that up.

Tito:

I had a skateboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah and it was, yeah. Fun times, I went through a nice skating punk phase in my life and I also, this is, it was so long ago. There was a skate shop on Newberry Street and if you can just imagine people being able to support a store on Newberry Street selling, I’m sorry, skating attire as well as trucks and boards. So that just tells you, that gives you a little bit of the landscape relative to time and age.

Richard:

That is so cool. You would’ve been one of my heroes.

Tito:

Good old days.

Richard:

Used to hang with the skaters but I could never make a skateboard work for me.

Tito:

That’s awesome, that’s awesome, that’s awesome.

Richard:

So I introduced you as entrepreneur, founder, former City Councilor. Is there anything you would add on to that introduction?

Tito:

One of the identities that I think is also really important is that I’m adopted and so Richard, I was adopted at the age of two months old and four years ago, right around this time, I actually met my biological mom and my two little brothers. So that has been a very important piece and so on an annual basis, I host National Adoption Day with the multiple organizations at the courthouse and so they confer, usually over 100 adoptions in the same day. So that’s one of the things that I really, that really is important to me.

Richard:

Right, that is so cool. Okay and check this out. I was adopted when I was three months old and about four years ago I met my birth mother.

Tito:

Dude! Get, get.

Richard:

For real.

Tito:

Okay. I’m not, I’m not, now I have two moms. I’m not going to be on your podcast person, I’m not going to do that but.

Richard:

We got more to talk about.

Tito:

But oh my goodness, okay. I’m, we’re kindred brothers. I call us the chosen posse.

Richard:

Okay.

Tito:

Because my, I have four older siblings and I remind them that they just had them and that I was chosen.

Richard:

I was the chosen one.

Tito:

So I really.

Richard:

And then my adopted parents, I say, and then they figured out how to have biological kids of their own right? So I have two younger siblings.

Tito:

That’s how it goes.

Richard:

Who weren’t adopted by my parents.

Tito:

Aww, so we have four older who are biological and then I have three younger siblings who are also adopted.

Richard:

I haven’t met my, I haven’t met my biological siblings yet. I talked to one on the phone and I know there’s a couple more that were born after me from my biological mom. That’s so cool man. It’s something special about the age with it. I don’t know how it happened with you. For me it was a trick of 23andMe and then learning that there’s a place in Dorchester called the Registry of Vital Records and you can just go there and find your birth certificate. Whoa.

Tito:

Yeah, so I did 23andMe. And I ended up actually finding a cousin and we kind of went back and forth.

Richard:

Same.

Tito:

But I actually, I called, oh my. Dude, and then I called The Home for Little Wanderers and you pay them 500 bucks because we just, and mind you, I want to give Sharn Garberly as well as multiple other folks at the State House props because they just did something for both you and I which is they made it so that from 1974 to 2008, it was closed adoption years. So we weren’t technically allowed to get the information and they just changed that. So it was this random thing. For the pre-74, wasn’t closed adoption. After 2008, wasn’t closed adoption. So that just happened. So props to those folks. But then I actually found out, this is a random side story and then I’ll get off of this. My biological mom went to City Hall in 2011 to get the records of the original birth certificate and she couldn’t because of this closed adoption thing and what ended up happening was, well she wasn’t able, she was there for an hour and I was literally in the building.

Richard:

Oh my God.

Tito:

Because I was a City Councilor.

Richard:

Right, that was your office.

Tito:

So we.

Richard:

Okay, oh man.

Tito:

So we have a whole, okay.

Richard:

Cool.

Tito:

So we’re going to do this team thing but we have, but I think Richard, I think there’s a whole brother to brother actually, would, that might be even a good. We could call it brother to brother.

Richard:

We’ve got, okay.

Tito:

And have a picture of us.

Richard:

And actually I’m, I don’t know. Okay, okay, we’ve got a next podcast. Next podcast series or something. I don’t know.

Tito:

Yes we do. I guess we technically have to finish this one and then we can.

Richard:

Go through this one.

Tito:

We’ll finish this one and then we’ll start the next one.

Richard:

Okay, wow so this is pretty cool man. This is the podcast about teams and I, I love to ask people about the best team you’ve ever been on in your life. And this could be any kind of team. I define team as any group of two or more people who have shared goals. So it could be a work team, I suppose in some stretch of the imagination, the Boston City Council might be a team. Could be the people you’re working with at Apex Noire. Could be some sports teams, some music thing, your skater friends. What’s the best team you were ever a part of in your life?

Tito:

This one is pretty easy for me. The best team that I’ve run, run with and connected with was my City Council office team which consisted of, it was probably about four to five folks at most times and then we had a great, we had a bunch of folks who were interns and then obviously the question is, why would that be the best team? The level of cultural dedication to the goals in that team were just remarkable. I literally had to throw my staff out of the office, oftentimes at 8:30 or 9 o’clock because they literally had started their day, depending on what type of crisis the day started, you could have started the day at 6:30 or 7 and literally they knew obviously that I was working you know, very hard and long hours. And there was always this component of wanting to be accountable to each other and working our butts off. And those, that culture permeates through to even folks who were interns. And so our last group of interns. So when you’re in City Council, one of the most difficult pieces is constituency services right? So people have whatever issue. It could be something, the school year’s starting. Sometimes people’s kids don’t get picked up, that’s a problem. Sometimes folks’ trash doesn’t get picked up, stop signs. It could be anything. So oftentimes in government, people see these jobs as not the choice job. And so people will avoid it and I would say you know, in our office, I did constituency service and I was the elected official and everyone did it. So when we had our last group of interns, they branded themselves Teen Titan and they each had an individual from this TV show “Teen Titan” which I don’t know that much about but they were some superheroes.

Richard:

I used to watch it with my son.

Tito:

But they literally would fight, okay. Some of this is, so they would literally fight over who could do the most constituency service calls in a week. And which, again, this is, not the spectacular work. This is the real work in the Council and I would say that that’s one of the pieces that I just really loved. The one other piece that was really important was that we used to have Cowbell Fridays and Richard, I’m sure you would like to know what Cowbell, ’cause we always need more Cowbell in our life.

Richard:

Hey Tito. Tito, what’s Cowbell Fridays?

Tito:

So Cowbell Fridays was the day that we would do our weekly success reportouts and so we each would go around and speak about one or two things that we are proud about in that week. And we, I, would ring the cowbell as a celebratory piece. So you know, people think this stuff is cheesy, corny or whatever. So Richard, there was one week I forgot to do it on Friday. Like I think I had, something came up or whatever and I got in on Monday and everybody was really angry with me. It was like, hey guys what’s the problem? We had not done our Cowbell ceremony and it was missed. So I would also say, so I think one of the keys is that we also have, we have to acknowledge the things that we’re not doing and the deltas that we have but I think one of the most important pieces about teams and we always say teamwork makes the dream work and we would use lots of quotes from movies. One of, there’s a movie called “Drumline” and there’s a line in there that says, “One band, one sound.” And so we would always want to be on the same page but I think it’s so important to take the time to celebrate the small wins. And that really helps you prepare and root yourself in a way, and as a team that you are structured to deal with the headwinds that will inevitably come.

Richard:

For sure, for sure. And I love that you use the word cultural dedication to goals right? Like, what else about?

Tito:

Yeah.

Richard:

You had a culture around this around your team. So what else about that?

Tito:

Well the culture also meant that regardless of what other offices or organizations did, we held ourselves to our own high standard. We knew that the way to do this job, and there was really only one way was to totally sell out for the people in our community and that would mean at times, putting ourselves in really difficult situations and sometimes even you know, quote unquote, controversial situations but we were doing it for the people and I’ll tell you, one of the pieces that really grounded me with my team was when I objected to the Boston 2024 Olympics coming to the City of Boston and costing the people of Boston, on paper, they told us $9 billion. Richard, it actually ended up being 12 billion but you know, what’s two or three billon here or there amongst friends? But I was the first Councilor to come forward and come out publicly against it and then also to subpoena documents and we ended up, and just think about this Richard. This would be building stadiums for the Olympics right now. With public funds and the like and just to contextualize what that would look like. But the thing was having a team who was able to execute our communications, execute our preparation and just simply be there for one another in a difficult time was so critical. But that we built that with each other and as a culture and our ability to lean on each other and trust each other. So I’m very, very proud of, and huge shoutout to Team Tito who rocked out for us and the people of District 7 and the people of City of Boston.

Richard:

Yeah, yeah and it’s funny. I’m thinking this is actually a global podcast but you and I are both, I didn’t grow up in Boston. But I’ve been here for way more than most of my life and I think of myself as a Bostoner. This is, it’s a very local conversation and I love that.

Tito:

Yeah, yeah.

Richard:

Now Team Tito, I guess that’s one word to describe the team. But if you could, as I’ve been reliving this team with you and I love it. If you could describe the sensation of that team, being with that team, working with that team. If you could describe that sensation, one word. What’s the one word you would use to describe that team?

Tito:

Dedication.

Richard:

All right.

Tito:

Slash loyalty.

Richard:

Dedication slash loyalty. So can you say more about both of those words?

Tito:

So Richard, it’s my thought. You know, I, this probably doesn’t work in surgery or putting together rockets or the like but in government, you typically can teach people the job right? So that’s, to me, not. The skillset piece is one of the things that we can train people up on and so the two areas that really rocked out for us was loyalty and it’s not even to me, but loyalty to the people and the overarching objective and cause right? So that’s one component, and hard work. Those two things, you know what? I can coach you on your job. I could coach you on how to you know, how to navigate government bureaucracies and the like but that loyalty and realizing it’s all, it’s bigger than us as an individual and that one phone call might only be one phone call to you as an individual but to that person on the other end, that could be their housing, that could be their lights, staying on or off. And so to them, it is literally the most important piece and by the way, whether or not it’s at the federal level or state level or local level or even if they’re from another municipality, the objective is to make sure that we are dedicated to our people. So that’s one of the things that really moved me.

Richard:

I love the feeling of the description of dedication and loyalty. I’m wondering, okay. I know it’s elected office but I’m curious, you seem like you really loved it. I’m curious about why you’re still not doing City Council or something like that? I know you ran for mayor once. Maybe more than once, I don’t know the whole history of everything.

Tito:

All my hair was black then Richard, when I ran for mayor. It was all nice and black. And now I have, my Frederick Douglassness has come out now Richard. I don’t know if there’s another rendition, I don’t know if it continues to, if I run again, is it all going to go or you know? So.

Richard:

So, I’m curious about the transition from, from elected official life to, to well, regular person or not quite regular person. Entrepreneur kind of life or? You definitely loved what you were doing.

Tito:

And so you know.

Richard:

I’m picking up that vibe. You definitely loved what you were doing in the City. Why the transition?

Tito:

Yeah. So from Councilor to cannabis right? So that’s, you know? So, I guess interestingly Richard, the same premise that, and the same passion is what I have for Apex Noire and the cannabis industry. So how did I get here? So in 2016, I had a group of people come to me with a report from the ACLU and the State of Massachusetts, they had looked at the year 2008 to 2014 and in the State of Massachusetts, interestingly, in 2008, what happened? They basically decriminalized possession of marijuana. So if you had an ounce or less, it became essentially a parking ticket. So not a criminal matter. But from 2008 to 2014, if you were Black, you had a 300% higher chance of being arrested for possession. Which I just told you was now legal and a ticket and you had a 700% higher chance of being arrested for distribution. Interestingly, the State of Massachusetts is about 7% Black.

Richard:

So it was out of proportion.

Tito:

So there’s some disproportionality, slightly disproportionate in terms of, in terms of the enforcement there. So you know, this issue of disparity is one of the things that I have really dedicated my life to which is really trying to lift folks up right? And one motivating factor that came out in Boston in 2015 is a study by the Federal Reserve Bank that’s called “The Color of Wealth” and it looks at the disparity in wealth in Boston and they looked at someone’s median net worth. I’m sure everybody knows what that is, but this, how much you own minus how much you owe. And the median net worth of a white family in Boston in 2015 was $247,500. The median net worth of a Black family in Boston in 2015 was $8. With the purposeful, pregnant pause and the median net worth of a Latino family at that point was zero dollars. So as a Councilor and then also as a entrepreneur, you know, your job is really you know, to solve a problem. And so when I think about the disparities that occurred, that are occurring writ large across the city, you know I think about ways that we can solve these problems. So in our company Apex Noire, we actually, we’ll be hiring folks. So we have an amazing facility at 150 State Street which is right in the Faneuil Hall area. We have seven stories and we have three licenses there. So we have a license over five floors to do cannabis retail. So this is going to be, really the fist seven story, full service experiential cannabis retail location. Edible factory. So we have a whole floor in the basement where we’re going to manufacture edibles on site in an amazing, beautifully built-out kitchen. And then we also have a cocktail bar on the top floor, top two floors and the top floor has a glass retractible roof. So we have all of this under one roof. And Richard, we’re going to have to hire a bunch of folks and so when I think about hiring folks and I think about how we can deal with some of the problems and issues that we had. So okay cool. So one, we’re going to pay folks 18 bucks an hour. So we’re going to pay people more than the minimum wage to start. In addition, we’re going to hold 20% of the jobs for people who have Acori. So these are individuals who have potentially made a mistake in their life and they have a record. Because if we really want to deal with issues of crime and the like, we actually have to make sure that people have an opportunity to get into gainful employment and Richard I consider those individuals who sold marijuana on the street to be some of the best entrepreneurs and by the way, they have what you and I on a resume would call transferrable skills.

Richard:

Exactly.

Tito:

So I don’t have to teach them about indica and sativa. So and by the way, they were in a marketplace where they didn’t get to have marketing material or a website. So there is something to be said about their understanding of the business world and then you partner that with again, the benefits and opportunity for people to move up. As well as a couple of things that we’re doing to actually help many folks who want to become entrepreneurs in the cannabis industry. Learn how to get into the industry. So we have a program called Vertit Inventures so we actually are teaching people how to get in the industry as well as paying for the initial fees for them to open their own business. So for me, you know, you actually get to take some of the issues that I learned about as a City Councilor and without all of the bureaucracy, you get to solve some of those problems in the business that I’m in. So we actually you know, really believe in a culture of conscious cannabis capitalism that allows for us to be thoughtful in the way that we run our business.

Richard:

All right, all right. Now it makes a lot of sense. And then.

Tito:

And we’re going to have a lot of fun too which is not. I’m not saying it is always the case, in government but not enough. So we’re going to actually have a little bit more fun than I had.

Richard:

And just like you said.

Tito:

And I had a lot of. Now mind you, I had a lot of fun at City Council.

Richard:

Yeah and just like you said, it’s the things that. I mean this is why I’m not in politics and why I get frustrated with politics. There’s no red tape. There’s a lot less red tape when you’re running your own business. You have an idea, you run with it and so you get to do that now.

Tito:

Yeah, yeah.

Richard:

Back to, back to Team Tito and dedication and loyalty. Subjectively, and objectively, let’s start with subjectively. Is there anything else that went into how you knew it was a great team?

Tito:

It was a great, also a great team because the leader of the team was able to get, and I don’t normally speak well of myself in the third person. But my team could check me right? And so that’s another component where I think oftentimes, for me, great leaders manage managers who are subject matter experts and kick butt in their specific area. And for me, I had a team of individuals who sometimes needed to tell me to be quiet about a specific issue. Or that I didn’t understand it. Or that I was doing the wrong thing. And so, that piece also, when you get to the phase where you are able to have a leadership team who is able to pull your collar and get you right, I think that’s to me, that heightened level of team but also real leadership. That allows for all to be part of leadership, rather than one.

Richard:

Ah yeah okay, okay, yeah. And what about objectively? How do you know that this was a great team? This would be like if somebody were looking at the team from outside, who’s not on the team. What would they have noticed?

Tito:

Yeah, so what they would’ve noticed is that our office handled, probably the most constituency service complaints. To the point where we had individuals from other areas. So in Boston we have what we call a hybrid City Council. So you have four at-large Councilors, so they take care of the whole city. But then you have nine quote unquote, district Counselors who have a geographic area. So literally I would have people from parts of the city that I did not represent come to our office. Because of the service that we were providing and oftentimes, the other piece was most people call. Well Richard, our folks didn’t really call all the time. They just would show up. So by far, we would have, by far, the highest number of in-person visitors and this is all pre-COVID but people would show up to have their constituency complaints heard and taken care of. So there was that component and then you know, we also did extra things. Such as on an annual basis, we had two really awesome events. We had a Turkey Fry which I hope to bring back. Richard, we had, it was very intimate. It was 1200 of our closest friends but it was a community event, it’s a block party and then we also did a massive turkey giveaway on an annual basis. We actually would feed 4000 families annually. And that’s obviously over and above what’s in your job description as a City Councilor and that was all based on the team that we put together that was able to execute that.

Richard:

Yeah, okay. So you mentioned, we’ll get into some concrete behaviors that people listening and watching could maybe replicate in their teams or customize for their teams. Just model their teams on yours. You had the Cowbell Fridays, that’s a concrete behavior. Something fun that you did to celebrate all the wins. What are some other concrete behaviors that you did together as a team that helped make it so great?

Tito:

Yeah so, yeah. So it was that piece. I also think crosstraining each other. So we could all have an understanding of each others’ roles and it’s not meaning swerving into others’ lanes but being able to help and assist each other. But I also believe, “StrengthsFinder” is one of my favorite books that we also should set people up in the lane that they’re going to do the best in right? And really put them, and run the score up in the areas that they’re the best in and then have some assistance or help in the areas that they might have deltas in. I think an underrated factor, and this is in particular in government. Is fun is underrated. Dude, it doesn’t have to be a schlog. You can actually have a good time while you do this. So I think that’s another component is to add in you know, elements of fun that really encourage and this, and remember, this isn’t government. So there is not the same structure. When I worked in, I have a, my first eight years were in sales. So I did pharmaceutical sales for Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly. A startup called Silverlink Communications. Shoutout to my man Stan Novak who was the CEO there. But you know, so that’s the other you know, component. So you’re not dealing, and my sales manager’s name was Tom McNamara. One of the best sales manager guys I’ve ever had my whole life. But we didn’t have dough in government right? So the way that you are motivating folks is also very different because of the lack of resources and so I think the fun component and I would simply, I guess one of the other factors is Richard, I also took pride in many other of my, many of my colleagues’ staff would want to come to our office because it was also the fun office. So we would get it done, but we also you know, had a lot of fun. So I think those are some of the components and I, like I said before. It’s so important to celebrate some of the small victories. Because you know, the big things come but really the big things are based on the small things that we end up doing together and so those are some of the, some of the factors that I think are critical. And I guess the one other piece is, having you know, integrity in terms of the work that you’re doing. And like I said, that dedication and loyalty. So it’s not, this was yes, in elected office but the focus was really on our objective which was serving the people. So I think having a clear mission, vision and objective is a very important component.

Richard:

For sure. And what advice would you give to other people so that they could replicate some of your team’s success?

Tito:

I think it’s, as we’ve talked about earlier, I think there is a component of culture-building that is not top-down. It does you know, it can be the scaffolding. But I think it is really important that the team come together in building those culture, cultural norms. And values. So I think that, giving folks the space to do that. I think it’s, it is important. In particular, as the leader, to lead by example. I think that’s one of the most important components and so my staff knew that you know, oftentimes, you know, if there were a fire, if there were a shooting, at 11 or 12 o’clock, I was there. So they knew when I got into the office at seven or eight in the morning I had been there, and then also I was going to work until 10 or 11. So that ability for them to understand, I was not asking them to do something that I wouldn’t be willing to do myself. So I think that’s a really important component for people to see you embody the values and culture that you’re actually asking people to aspire to. And I also believe one of the things that gets missed often. I believe in developing people, and I think there should be a career development pathway for each and every individual. And that requires, oftentimes, resources and we’re going to connect that in our business but even though you know, it’s not something that is standard across cannabis as a whole but I think that piece is a critical component and people need to continue to get better and I guess the last thing I would note is that equity is absolutely key. And so one of the things that we have done at Apex Noire and actually, Richard, I haven’t announced this yet. So I’m going to give you some breaking, breaking news. Because you’re my adopted brother, so we signed on as the first cannabis company with the Mayor’s Office of Women’s Advancement as part of the 100% Talent Compact in Boston and so what does that mean? That means we’re actually going to be tracking our data in terms of how much just this whole radical concept Richard, we should pay women equitably versus their male counterparts. Know it’s really radical but no, it’s literally the right thing to do and the difference is in our company, we’re really the first company that’s doing it prospectively rather than retrospectively right? So we’re actually starting with that as a value. It’s simply the right thing to do and it makes absolute sense. And so I think that is another component for people to understand the policies and procedures and all of that stuff means something but the proof is really in the pudding and compensation, and equitable compensation is not something that should be toyed with or played with. For me, it’s kind of binary. Either this is something you believe in and you write the cheque to make sure that we’re equitable or something that you don’t believe in and your equity, the component of equity or I’m sorry, lack of equity persists.

Richard:

Yeah, yeah and the integrity that goes with it. It’s not just saying it, it’s writing the cheque.

Tito:

Yeah.

Richard:

Yeah, awesome. Awesome, awesome, awesome. So in addition to this advice, examples that other people could follow, is there anything else you want to add? Anything at all?

Tito:

I think, you asked me earlier about the City Council thing. What I would also say to you is that I don’t believe that individuals should serve in office as really a career. I believe we should move in and out of service. And I would submit, Richard, I would love for you to be in some type of elected, an appointed office. Our country would be in a much better place than we are right now. And I would submit you know, we get the government that we deserve and if there’s not awesome people like you who step up, then we get what we get. I would also say we don’t have to wait to have a title to do something. You don’t need a title. There are people who you know, there are you know, moms who take over some aspect of a whole school district and change the whole world. There are individual young people who decide to raise funds for a specific cause and change their neighborhood and community and things around them. And I guess I’ll just end with my, my theory on life. There’s a poem called “The Dash” by Richard Ellis, I’m sorry, Linda Ellis and it basically breaks down that we all get a headstone Richard, if we’re lucky, when it’s all said and done. By the way, there’s a secret that you don’t get out of life alive. Actually we all going to leave here some day and we get a headstone and on the headstone there are three important things. There’s our name, the date we came here and the date we leave. But the most important thing on the headstone, that most unique thing on the headstone, the only thing that represents you is the dash between the two dates. And that dash is a challenge and it’s a question mark about what did you do? Who did you help? What’s new, different or better from the time that you were here? And that’s, I think the challenge that I think about and I pose to all of our listeners and viewers. As to you know what? What did we do in our time here that is significant? What legacy did we make? And Denzel Washington noted that he’s been to a lot of funerals but he’s never been to a funeral that had a Brink’s Truck lined up to go to the cemetery. Right, because you can’t take it with you. And so the question is, what are you leaving behind that embodies something bigger, better and badder than just us as an individual. And if we do that man, and we leave this, take out a big bat and put a dent in the universe, then we made it happen because I would submit to you, none of us were sent here to do small things. I believe all of us were sent here to do something awesome, fantastic and amazing. And so be bold in what you’re doing, in your private life, your work life and hopefully some day, you are able to get what a friend of mine, her name was Gina Rudan, she wrote a book called “Practical Genius”. Hopefully your work some day and your passion, hopefully some day they intersect and you are able to not have to work another day in your life because you’re living out your passion on a day to day basis.

Richard:

Thank you for that. Dude, that is awesomely and scary inspiring. Like I feel that. It’s so inspiring and it’s scary how inspiring it is. I want to go do things now that I’m afraid to do. Hold elected office.

Tito:

My brother.

Richard:

Or do something in local government. I’m so afraid of that. Maybe because that’s something I should do.

Tito:

Yeah, and I’m going to push this one piece and I’m not trying to get political but I’m trying to get kind of structural when it comes to it. All that stuff down in Washington, you all have that and we do that every four years but to your point Richard, and my friend who’s a Congresswoman, Ayanna Pressley, when she first ran she said you know, “Local government is the government that touches people.” Right, you don’t call the White. If your kid doesn’t get picked up at the bus stop, you don’t call D.C.. Right, and so there’s a place locally and you know, it happens in Massachusetts. We have 351 cities and towns and there’s places where we still have straight town meeting right? There’s a whole, there’s some just town meeting and mind you, that’s where you get some of the best apple cider that you’ll ever have in your whole life. But you know, they have straight, hey. In these places and spaces, you know, individual folks can absolutely make a huge impact and you can do it in your town, you can do it in your company and you can do it in your life.

Richard:

For sure, for sure. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Tito, is there, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you, some viewer, listeners. Is there a way they could do that?

Tito:

Yeah, so I’m going to start getting cool like the young folks who are schooling me on this social media stuff. My IG is @tito, T-I-T-O, jackson B-O-S, and it’s not for boss. It’s actually for Boston right? So @titojackson B-O-S, I actually, to the chagrin of my other brother, the other Tito Jackson who’s related to Michael.

Richard:

Oh that.

Tito:

And to the chagrin of many fans.

Richard:

There’s some other Jackson.

Tito:

So shoutout to him. Yeah, that’s true. I’m definitely a fan of The Jackson 5 and I totally want to meet Tito Jackson some day. So if he’s a listener, brother Tito Jackson please reach out to me. But my Twitter handle is actually @titojackson.

Richard:

Woo, you got that!

Tito:

Which is really cool. Yeah.

Richard:

The Tito Jackson.

Tito:

Yes, yes.

Richard:

You are the Tito Jackson.

Tito:

The Tito, it’s so. And for email, it is actually tito@apexnoire.com. So T-I-T-O @ A-P-E-X Noire, N-O-I-R-E.com.

Richard:

Perfect, we’ll put some links to this in the podcast episode description. Woo, this was fun man.

Tito:

Awesome, awesome.

Richard:

Thanks Tito. I really appreciate your joining us today.

Tito:

Richard, my adopted brother from another mother, I’m two months, you three months. When it comes to the adopted situation, situationship. And you got to meet your biological mom, bro.

Richard:

We’re going to talk more.

Tito:

We are absolute kindred spirits. My brother from another mother, brother Richard.

Richard:

Thanks so much Tito. We’re going to talk more after we go off-air about the adoption stuff.

Tito:

Awesome.

Richard:

Folks, listeners, viewers. To support this podcast, remember just visit my website, kasperowski.com. Thanks again to Tito and we’ll see you in the next episode.